Perfect Boat Layout.

[Guest Jocool]

This is a bit out of left field...but here goes!

I was asked a question by a boatbuilder about what layouts and inclusions work best on boats in NSW. I told him I would do some research....and you guys are the subjects of that research.

Let us say you are on the market for one of theses 2 boats.

Boat 1 A V-nose punt type boat between 4 and 5 meteres. This would be aimed at shallow water creek work with the ability to scoot out into the bays as well.

Boat 2 A V-Hull boat between 4.5 and 5.5 meteres Boat 2 is aimed at more open bay work, with the occasional sortie beyond the heads.

Now...Lets say you have a blank piece of paper and were building the boat out of plate alloy. What dimensions would you want, and what inclusions would be a MUST-HAVE on each boat. And what options would you feel you may want to see on it? Layout is completely at your discretion. Runabout, CC, cuddy, tiller steered...Totally up to you! Would you want it fully kitted with all electronics etc, or is that something you would rather do at your leisure?

Finally...How fast do you want it to go, and what type of motor would you want on it? 2 Stroke, 4 Stroke, or the high tech 2 Stroke?

You don't need to offer suggests on both, if you don't want. Just offer something on the boat that appeals to you!

[Jethro]

When I got my new boat I spent a fair bit of time with Raffi nutting out the final deck layout and there is not one thing I would change now.

For my style of fishing the 7ft rod locker was a great choice as well as the built-in tackle storage that can hold 5 large plano lure boxes, spinnerbait box, etc. Also the 2 single seats are removeable and can be replaced with a board with removeable cushions to give the guy at the back more fishing space.

The boat is going back to Raffi in the next couple of weeks and he is going to add a 60L under floor esky We currently use a 73L EvaCool and its a bit of a pain to have sitting on the deck.

As for size obviously bigger is better (to a point). I would have prefered a 4.75m or even a 5m but as always the $$$ played a part as well as my tow vehicle.

[Grantm]

Good question, im looking at the moment for a boat 2 type runabout around 4.6m

Gotta say after looking at Stacer , Quinnie and Sea jay theres not much more you could possibly want. There are just so many options and inclusions you just about get everything.

I would like to combine a few features though. eg Quinnie flared hull with Stacer evo hull, then fully welded like Sea jay hull.

Take the Stacers storage and the Quinnie quality fittings inside. Stick it on a dunbier trailer and fit a high tech 2 stroke over a four stroke.

Option a live bait tank and full instrumentation and im set.

I did think about it Joe but I just couldnt design anything better from scratch.

Oh yeah, wouldn't mind the Ally Craft price tag !

Edited January 13, 2005 by Grantm

[Guest hottuna]

I’ll comment on the V-Hull as Bream boats are not my cup of tea. I’ll also stick to the top end of the size you mentioned i.e. 17’ which is trailable with a 6cyl sedan (I hate 4WD’s). These are also my personal preferences for a boat which probably doesn’t reflect the mass market.

In terms of overall layout the big question is cabin space versus fishing space. Sydney’s waterways (especially the Cowan system) are just so perfectly tailor made for overnighting, I’d not buy another boat that didn’t allow me to unroll the sleeping bag and have a kip.

Of course (like everything) I want the best of both worlds and I’m not prepared to sacrifice fishing space because fishing is the boat’s primary purpose. I guess what I’m saying is my perfect boat is a fishing boat with maximum fishing room that, at a pinch, you can sleep on. The whole layout is built around this principle.

Having put a lot of thought into this I believe this is actually possible in a 17’ boat with some clever design work. The bunk would be the typical ‘v’ berth hard up front with a cuddy just big enough to allow sleeping space for 2 persons. This keeps the controls as far forward as is physically possible leaving maximum fishing space up the back.

Crawling through the cuddy to get hatch access is out of the question and I’m sure some clever design work could see a split windscreen and hatch configured to be almost ‘walk through’. An anchor well (or other storage solution) is necessary to keep the wet, muddy anchor out of the way.

The boat will need a nice deep V allowing the driver to put the nose down and cut through the chop the Sydney summer nor-easter whips up. Some of the aluminium boats I’ve been on are too ‘tinny’ and annoying in the slop but you said that this is plate so I’ll assume similar bad weather characteristics to fibreglass.

A rocket launcher is a must as well as side pockets for storage. I’d opt for a built in live tank and esky as well as an under-floor fuel tank. It’s also vital that when fishing standing up you can get your toes in close to the gunwale so you can lean against the side for stability. A removable bait board is essential.

A canopy or bimini is essential to escape the sun. Whatever the solution is, It would need to prevent rain getting into the open cuddy and in conjunction with the windscreen, prevent spray in bad conditions getting into the boat.

After recent experiences I’d go for a 4 stroke. Quieter, more fuel efficient and more reliable. 115hp would be ample as super high speeds are not necessary.

As for marine electronics, I guess an optional package would be good (sounder, GPS, stereo, 2 way etc).

Oh, and a beer holder for the skipper.

That’s my perfect boat. They’d probably sell one of them (to me!!!) but you asked for personal preferences!

26972[/snapback]

Nice suggestions Iain .

Do you know you have described a allison fisherman 189 too a tee -

I like all of the above in a vessel, heres a couple of things i`ll add:

- length of 5.5 - 6m

-self draining

-walk around as it could double as a forward casting platform.

-twin 70hp high tech 2 strokes or 150 single not for speed but for heavy loads or when crossing bars. (Ive often wished for more ponys coming back in from swr bar on a runout tide. Its amasing how the rip of the tide drains away power)

-variable deadrise hull

-100nm range

- 150l kill tank

-300m rope capacity large anchor well

-colour sounder

-padded coamings, this could be a real help when fishing in a bumpy sea. (something id like to add to hot tuna) I ve ended up with nasty bruises after a few days hard fishing.

-

Dan

[bombora]

OK Jo, Here's my dream machine, it would probably fall under the Type 2 boat in your question, but would be capable of most of what the Type 1 category could do:

It would be 4.5m, no more cause of Sydney parking etc but a length perfectly capable of offshore use in good weather, glass OF COURSE because nothing is better for fishing, they are quiet, none of that wave slap which people are realising is a serious issue in hard fished waters, and far more sophisticated hull shapes can be made. It would be one of the newer tough as nails composites actually.

Hull would be a deepish V with seriously downturned chines with some nice Carolina-style bow flare; best of both worlds as far as wave slicing and at rest stability and spray deflection. Almost a cathedral hull but not quite.

Centre Console, a wide one too, again for spray and wind protection. Console about centre or just aft of centre. Trim vital in small boats so a console is by far the best option. Continuing on the trim theme; can house two portable fuel tanks in a below deck covered hatch just ahead of the console, so there's no weight at the back for the dreaded bum drag, and they are removable so you don't have to trailer the entire boat to the servo to refuel. battery(s) under the console so again no weight in the bum and the weight is again down the centre line.

Two upright stainless rod holders attached to grabrail over console windscreen into which the bases of a removable bimini top could fit for stinkin summer days.

A series of rod holders along the bow gunnels which again could house the vertical pipes of a two piece removable bow rail (put in for offshore, take out for calm water). A removale two piece bow casting platform, again so you have safe cockpit depth for offshore. Livewell underfloor between console and bow. As much underfloor storage as possible.

Vertical transom (I hate those angled Euro-style transoms).

Seating would be either sit on padded icebox, but it would again be removeable.

Thru-hull transducer for sounder; fully foam filled like a boston whaler, coloured hull with white deck and topsides (love those pastel yellow, blue or green hulls the yanks make, might have to name the boat Metrosexual). Any metal is stainless, no alloy. Stainless steering wheel (hate plastic car style steering). 70HP E-Tec. Electric-motor base on bow.

Canvas cuddy-cabin style cover which could stretch from bow to console for really rotten weather and which can be unbuttoned and stored away.

Not too much to ask for really! Cheers Bombie

[mark_s]

Some damm good posts already so I will just add a couple of things:

- live bait tank that can double as an insulated ice box when not fishing

- Access ladder at the back + lockable openable rear of boat (for swimming and diving)

- I prefer high chairs with a high steering wheel rather than sit down chair with legs under the wheel

- Rod holders every metre up and down the sides of the boat, including one right next to the steering position to make trolling easier.

- Canopy thats easily removeable and clips onto the wind screen - keeps the spray out when travelling in chop

- If possible a built in storage area for my takkle box (so I can just put it in the boat and lock it into place)

- Lockable (with decent locks) storage so you don't have to worry about some bastrd floggin your stuff when you go to get the car etc.

My next boat would have a 4 stroke.

Have you thought of a cat design. I like the look of the Webster twin fishers.

[Guest Target]

Lots of great suggestions above, which obviously reflect each persons fishing styles.

Personally for me, Boat 1 is the pic below.

Boat 2, which is what I want now, would be:

. 4.7 to 5m in length, beam up around the 2.2m

. Centre console

. a front casting deck for a maximum of 1/4 of the front of the boat and no higher than an extra 200mm. ie depth floor to gunnels at the back of the boat about 650mm (just above knees) and at the fron 450 to 500mm casting deck to gunnels. This allows for realy stable conditions at the back to lean against and the front cast deck gets you higher, but not too high that you no longer have any leg support (essential for casting at sambo's, etc in the bay and offshore)

. Gunnels to be rounded all the way around the boat.

. Full hight transom and full width outboard pod to support 4 stroke.

. Rod holders under one transom suit 6 rods, plus rod rack on console.

. Seat box that is spilt into small bait esky, kill tank at bottom, and tackle storage draws.

Fold down rear lounge that can be used padded side up for a seat, or reversed with hard side up for a small rear cast deck.

Electrics, prefer to fit myself.

Speed, not overly important as most times you cant travel at max speed, but up around 25 to 30 knots for safty as

Just my thoughts.

Adrian

BTW Bombie, have you had a look at the Haines 445 CC, there are a few new ones being made on that hull at the moment by some people. The boat on the current Trailer Boat magazine is from that hull. A guy on the Central Coast also makes them a bit cheeper too.

[Guest Jocool]

And Joe - what were you doing talking to a boatbuilder ???  What are you up to ???

26964[/snapback]

All in good time mate... All in good time!

[Jethro]

Ok a bit more.....

Here is a photo of my current deck

As you can see no clutter, plenty of storage and heaps of fishing space. Just what I need

I can't really cooment on larger 2st motors as the only one I have ever owned is a 1978 6hp Evinrude. The curent OB is a 50hp 4st and I am very happy with it. Its a little slow out of the hole but other than that its great. She will top out at 32MPH but cruses comfortably around 20MPH. The fuel economy is a lot better at that speed as well.

If I was doing it all over again I would have a really close look at the Etec's. I have heard nothing but good things about them.

Oh yeah the boat MUST also have some sort of console (side or center). I was tossing around going tiller steer for the extra fishing space but the side console is worth its weight in gold on long hauls like Glenbawn or on the Hakwesbury.

[Guest Target]

Jethro

Nice boat, love the colour co-ordination with the carpet.

It shows the difference in peoples fishing styles, the layout of your boat is almost the reverse of what I would be after, and shows that you cant build the perfect boat - everyone wants different things. Youve gone for high cast decks all over the boat, I like the lower cast decks and low floor. More along the lines of where you fish - luring for bream/bass your high decks would be better, but I spend alot of time in broken bay and want the side support of the low floor/higher gunnels. How do you find the high decks when fishing in Broken Bay or in boat wash?

Adrian

[patl]

Joe,

Around 4.75 - 5 metres with pretty close to max beam. I currently fish out of a tiller boat and dont mid that set up, but wouldnt mind a console set as far back as possible. As the boat is used just for fishing I dont mind no covers or clears but that could be negoitable.

For a different set up there is a trap boat that works Broken Bay, he has a console with a centre cab set right at the back of the boat, interesting?

Must be self draining with better than positive flotation! This would mean the boat would almost be in survey.

High sides, low floor height as possible, if you can lock youre toes under something and then your knees under padded sides it can save a lot of bruises when getting thrown around. Nice wide coamings, you can sit on these when it is nice and calm. Under the wide coamings on one side an open type rod locker, under the other side storage for nets, gaff, oars.

I would probably use an ETEC as they are so much lighter than a 4 stroke. That way you may be able to get away from a pod and keep the boat more compact with a full size transom. Motor with power trim and tilt.

I love the idea behind the bar crusher hulls, very deep V running back along the boat with a water ballast to help stabalise it a rest. Too many boats under 5 metres are virtually a flat bottom punt about half way back along the hull, this is the part of the hull that does a lot of the hard work. A real pointy bow sometimes is no indication how a boat cuts through chop which a multi use boat would spend a long time doing.

A keel to take the hard knocks that fishing boats get, especially if being put on sand bars or beaches at ramps, dams etc...

A couple of inclusions

*Horizontal rod storage (in a multi use boat being able to store the rods out of the way means you can troll really close into and around timber)

*As many rod holders as possible, with 4 a side for bait fishing side on, 4 for bait fishing out the back (I fish a couple of places where the current runs hard so the nose needs to point up current), and 4 rod holders for trolling. Some of these holders would fit a couple of needs, mind you in my 4 metre tinny I have 11 rod holders now.

*Live bait tank, probably at the back so the plumbing is short and simple, if something goes wrong here things could turn bad real quick.

*Underfloor kill tank that can be used as a live well, under floor cool storage

*Underfloor fuel tank with a filler situated so if you have that accident at the bowser it does end up in the floor of the boat. I also dont mind a reserve tank, always an insurance policy in case you get water in one tank or need that little bit extra to get home if the weather turns bad.

*Bow roller that works with a decent anchor well that drains out of the boat. Storage for a minimum two anchors, usually sand and reef.

*Full set electronics, but these would be a personal choice (radio, seperate GPS and sounder etc...)

*Dry storage for life jackets and other bits of pieces

*Different plug in seat configurations,

*battery storage for a leccy up the front (to keep all the cable runs short) with an easy way to remove these if needed. If you were doing a bit of blue water stuff why knock the batteries around. Seperate battery for the motor and electronics.

* bow mounted leccy with a removable base

*flush mounted lights so they wont get knocked off if you knock something

*and off course cup holders

*trailer with off road capability and full length walk way, if fishing far north getting your feet wet can make you pretty nervous, trailer to be capable of driving the boat on.

I am sure I have left stuff off but this could be a start.

good grief, how much would all this cost???

[Guest Jocool]

good grief, how much would all this cost???

27054[/snapback]

A lot less than you think!

[Guest Target]

good grief, how much would all this cost???

27054[/snapback]

A lot less than you think!

27059[/snapback]

In that case Joe, get me a price for Patls boat, love the ideas We must like fishing the same way Patl. Just move the console just a bit further forward, I wnat fishing space behind the rear seat/icebox.

Adrian

[mitch]

Hey Jo,

Well I am looking at getting myself a boat later on in the year.

To be honest I would have to say that the best lay-out I have seen for quite a while would have to be Mango's Attack built by Drew from Attack Boats. This is a very stable unit with a 90hp E-Tech and it really looks the Goods.

Another nice one I have seen would definatly be Ross's Elegant it surely is "Elegant" . This is also a very tidy lay-out.

At the moment I am looking at both of these but haven't really had much of a chance to check the Elegants unfortunatly. Wouldn't mind talking with the Manufacturers to see if ya can chuck about 135hp on the back, that'd do me just fine

Mitch

[patl]

Joe

A brand of boat a few of my mates owned years ago where Cairns Custom Crafts, you may want to check some of the photos on there site, we used to catch all sorts of things out there V nose punts, macks, barra, marlin, sails etc....

http://www.cairnscustomcraft.com

[Jethro]

How do you find the high decks when fishing in Broken Bay or in boat wash? 

27044[/snapback]

I haven't done a great deal of fishing in any sort of rough water. Th roughest its been has been on Lake Macquarie in a howling NEster and the large crusiers going past. Some of them left a 2ft wake and it was still pretty stable to fish off.

I am hoping to do a bit of time in Broken Bay over the coming months as soon as I do I will let you know how it goes

As you said my boat is perfect for me but I don't think you can ever have a perfect all round boat

[bombora]

Hiya Target, sorry for late reply. Mate I've been keeping a lookout for well priced 2nd hand Haines 445C for a couple of years! Rare as Hens teeth and the ones that have been for sale have been very expensive (jeez these things have kept their value). Have also lusted after the "new 445C's" from both the Sydney and Victorian outfits who have acquired the 445C hulls moulds at the past couple of boat shows, but new they are out of my price range at the mo! A couple of Sydney blokes some years ago used to regularly take a 445C to the shelf in search of fin on fly. Very versatile little boat. The search goes on. Cheers Bombie

[Bashir]

Hey bombie, I haven't seen the boys at the marina using their 445c as a workboat in some time, it seems to just be sitting there. I'll ask them again if they're thinking of selling.

[Guest Jocool]

I dont know what the 445C looks like as far as hull shape goes, but I saw a Haines Hunter hull that is need of some work. Its a runaboat, but at the price it may be had for....FREE...then it may be worth it.

Care to throw up a pic of a 445 hull so I can see if its similar?

[Bashir]

Joe, the 445c is a centre console. You may have seen the 445r or 146r or something like that. Free you say. My dad would kick my arse if I brought any more junk home.

[ankles]

only one boat there joe 26 blackwatch.

[bombora]

Bash that would be great next time you are there . Hiya Jo yup may have been the runabout version. Plenty of people wacked anything up to a 115hp on the runabout version to use as a mini ski boat. They went rather fast but not sure what the transom would be like coping with that strain/weight. cheers Bombie

[fastone]

ANKLES A BLACKWATCH IS THE GOODS FOR SURE . THEY ARE AWESOME , ID TRADE THE MISSUS FOR A WATCH. ULTIMATE FISHING TOOL.

[aussiebasser]

hmmmmmmmm this'll do!!

[aussiebasser]

Maybe layout isn't as important as horsepower. At least with this one you could stand on the cowls if you needed more room.