What's Better Vhf Or 27mhz

[jdu174]

Raiders

Need some advice what better vhf or 27 MHz

And what’s the difference?

Edited August 31, 2007 by jdu174

[netic]

27mhz is used more often in estuaries and close to shore, it operates on the line of sight

VHF is more designed for ofshore purposes, allows you to stay in touch with dry land even if your 50kms out but at times the vhf is no good....just recently channell 81 was really playing up and many game boats were using the 27mhz for boat to boat chatter because they couldnt chat to each other even though they were only 1km apart....

Supposedly VHF has some connection with the land....its not direct contact....the signal relays to a station on land then back out to sea.......I dont knw the details but im sure people like Ungry warnie can ellobarate a bit more

Edited August 31, 2007 by netic

[warnie]

Hi mate

as netic said is correct.....it seems at times on the water you can get

dead areas.......the one noticiable differance with VHF is it works better by

line of sight........hence repeaters are put in certain places to help give an extended line of sight

for greater coverage ......... one is a top...... mt...... (it escapes me)

up at Gosford way....... one on top of mt kiera wollongong etc......as a rule channel 81

(Repeater at Gosford) for example

allows me to chit chat after being relayed through the repeater to some one fishing at say port stephens.....and at

the same time would not be able to talk to say oz....18 miles away over the horizon

All the same the vast majority of us fishing outside have both VHF & 27MEG on board both from

mainly a safety factor

and convenience to talk on....VHF is the dearer one and yes you would require to have two

differant areials.........

Cheers Warnie..........

[fishingrod]

Gday JDU

Just to elaborate on what Netic has said.

"SOME" VHF channels have repeaters on them. Which is typically a relay station located on a high point on land to help increase range. There is maybe 5-10 repeater channels that the normal boating public can use free of charge.

VHF 81 in Sydney is located somewhere near Beacon Hill i believe (on the top of the hill above Brookvale).

EDIT - i just saw Warnie's post

VHF 80 is somewhere up the Gosford/Newcastle way i beleive

VHF has about 55 channels. Most of the other non repeater channels do not use repeaters and the signals just go from your boat direct to another boat (or rescue base station)

Basically if you are fishing in the river or near shore a 27Mhz will generally suffice. But ideally have both for max safety and range (if space and money allows)

In some cases (hilly areas) the 27Mhz may work better than VHF. But general rule is VHF gives better range.

In Sydney both 27Mhz and VHF are well monitored. In other parts of NSW and Australia you may find that one is more frequently used than the other.

I hope thats not to confusing for you. I could do into a lot more detail !

cheers

Rod

Edited August 31, 2007 by fishingrod

[warnie]

Hey rod

you got me there

all i know for certainty is i do get good result on both 80 & 81 but generally

better with channel 81... so i stick to channel 81.......hence brookvale channel 81 ??? Gosford channel 80?????

jee...... im curious to know myself...can you confirm.....

Warnie......

[fishingrod]

This is a bit off topic for JDU. Sorry mate.

For generaly day-to-day use you wouldnt normally use the repeaters. If you had a emergency and could not raise help on the conventional emergency channels (16 & 67) then knowing the local repeater would be a great help. Not all Rescue Bases monitor repeaters in all areas. Ive encouraged our base to monitor them.

Id guess that less than 5% of VHF users in Sydney know the location of the repeaters, and even less again actually use them.

can you confirm.....

Ok ive done some homework:

In Sydney VHF 81 is located in Frenches Forest (right next door to BeaconHill and Brookvale)

On the Central Coast VHF 80 is located at Mt SugarLoaf

Which I think is the group of towers just to the west of the F3 Freeway roughly between the Toronto and Maitland exits. I know that in Broken Bay VHF 80 coverage is very average and it is widely used around Swansea and Port Stephen by boats fishing the shelf. So that would confirm SugarLoaf as the correct location.

The range of the repeaters in normal conditions would be less than a 250km radius, so thus you can have other repeaters on the same channels in different towns of NSW.

Any other questions just ask

cheers, Rod

[Robbielites]

Hi Rod,

Quailty info, thanks mate!

Cheers.

Robbie.

[jdu174]

Thanks guys

A very big help!!!

you guys know your stuff

thank you, John

Edited August 31, 2007 by jdu174

[fishingrod]

Down South we use 72- would anyone know where the repeater is off Jervis Bay?

VHF 72 is not a repeater channel. You are talking to each other directly boat to boat.

I mite have a hunt around on the weekend re repeaters VS area of operation

Rod

[fishingrod]

I mite have a hunt around on the weekend re repeaters VS area of operation

Rod

I had a bit of a look around. There are a number of newly issued repeater licences in NSW and im guessing a lot of the new sites dont have repeaters actually installed and activated yet. If all the sites I found actually get repeaters installed there is a good system on the way !

On second thoughts, im a little hesistant to put up a the list of repeaters because a number of them arent switched on and I cant verify the ones that are on.

A number of the repeaters are owned and run by the AVCG and RVCP, so if there is a repeater the local base should be able to tell you of its existance.

Just a bit of general info:

-There are 5 repeater channels in the VHF marine band. Channels 21, 22, 80, 81 and 82.

-Most repeaters have a short "tail" after you let go of the microphone. You can hear the repeater still transmitting a silent signal for 1-2 seconds. This is not a static hash tail like when the squelch is off. It sounds like someone is holding a microphone down and not talking for 1-2 seconds. Occasionaly some repeaters have a roger beep that sounds at the end of each transmission.

-Depending on your radio brand/model you need to have AUS Australian or International channel mode selected. If you are in the USA mode some channels operate differently and have power restrictions. (IE certain channels will only transmit on low power for example)

I hope thats of some help

Rod

[Guest DV8]

The big problem I see with having only a 27 meg is the fact that it is really only good for ship to ship contact and ship to shore with the volunteer organisations.

The "Three port corporations" do not monitor 27 meg for search and rescue, therefore if you get into trouble outside the hours of the volunteer organisations nobody will hear you.

On the other hand, the three ports corporation monitors HF and VHF 24 hours a day.

There is also a heap of chitter chatter on 27 meg which could render it less effective when using it to conduct search and rescue.

Just my thoughts.

[james7]

I have a 27MHz radio as I don't venture very far outside. I always keep it on 88 for any warnings. If I was out fishing and I wanted to contact any other Raiders that were fishing in the same area, what should I do? Is there a particular channel to use or procedure to follow? Do I ask if anyone is there on 88 and ask them to go to channel "??"

Cheers

Peter

[warnie]

y.

There is also a heap of chitter chatter on 27 meg which could render it less effective when using it to conduct search and rescue.

Just my thoughts.

DV8

what you say has a certain amount of merit.........but no one would not either carry one

or use one with that concern in mind.....you would most likely find that if the perverbial was to

hit the fan and you were to seek assistence the shear number of boats listening on channel

would be in your favour and many a boat as sought out help by means of another boat relaying the

relevant info..and in fact many a rescue has been carried out were skip conditions have carried the signal to another country...which then has been relayed back to canberra to effect the rescue operations.....

so if required do not hesitate to do so it has a huge chance of being affective....

And peter

quite a few raiders and a lot of other fisho's converse on channel 94 and to a lessor

extent channel 96 there are other's as well but i am confident if you monitor 94 you will find

what you are looking for see if you can meet up with a raider on this site that lives near you

so as they can give you a rundown

on procedure and etiquete if that proves difficult then let me know and i will arrange to

meet up with you and take you through it......

Cheers Warnie...........

[james7]

And peter

quite a few raiders and a lot of other fisho's converse on channel 94 and to a lessor extent channel 96 there are other's as well but i am confident if you monitor 94 you will find what you are looking for see if you can meet up with a raider on this site that lives near you so as they can give you a rundown on procedure and etiquete if that proves difficult then let me know and i will arrange to meet up with you and take you through it...

Thanks Warnie. Very much appreciated.

Cheers

Peter

[gone_wishin]

One more difference between the 2, you are meant to have a licence to operate a VHF.

Just like the one you will get if you attend the Raiders Marine operators Proficiency Course in Oct. (and pass the exam).

[Guest DV8]

Thanks warnie

I myself would not rely on fellows with a 27 meg to correctly relay my mayday, since no qualification / course/expertise is required to use one.

I don't quite underastand what you are getting at when you say no one would use one with safety in mind. What other reason would you be carrying a radio??

I am not hassling, I just don't understand what you are saying??

Cheers

davo

[jewgaffer]

One more difference between the 2, you are meant to have a licence to operate a VHF.

Just like the one you will get if you attend the Raiders Marine operators Proficiency Course in Oct. (and pass the exam).

Some members may not be aware that they need a licence to operate a 27hz radio licence more than two kilometers from the coast line and just as important they need to carry a "Class Licence" for the radio itself, either in the boat or on their person, whenever they have either a VHF or 27HZ radio in there boat.

I received information that they will be policing boaties for marine radio licences in the interests of safety on the water, after the number of incidents which have occurred .

Any further comments on these regulations?

jewgaffer

[saltrix]

Some members may not be aware that they need a licence to operate a 27hz radio licence more than two kilometers from the coast line and just as important they need to carry a "Class Licence" for the radio itself, either in the boat or on their person, whenever they have either a VHF or 27HZ radio in there boat.

I received information that they will be policing boaties for marine radio licences in the interests of safety on the water, after the number of incidents which have occurred .

Any further comments on these regulations?

jewgaffer

There is a gov. site that deals with Licence requirements and details of VHF, 27 Mhz, and HF radio.

It is the ACMA site www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD//pc=PC_1303

In summary it says that there is a class licence for 27 Mhz and VHF and individual licences are not issued or required for marine operation.

A class licence seems to be a general exception rule in allowing the possession of the radio. It states on page 7 4 Class licence.This licence authorises any person to operate a maritime ship station on-board an Australian ship------

The class licence requires in the case of VHF further states -- page 8

10 A person must not operate on frequencies in the VHF band unless

a) that " the operator is qualified to operate the station--- and --- 2) a) A restricted Radio Operator's Certificate of Proficiency or Marine Radio Operator's VHF certificate of Proficiency-----(read on for exemptions) is required.

A licence is still required for HF radio itself and the operator also..

This site also summerises the use for the radios.

There is no mention on this site of a requirement for a certificate to be held by the operator of 27Mz radio, and there is no licence required for the radio itself under the class licence.

I would welcome any discussion on this as the documentation seems complicated and jumps from one paper to another.

This site was updated in Feb 07.

Saltrix

Edited September 7, 2007 by saltrix

[fishingrod]

Some members may not be aware that they need a licence to operate a 27hz radio licence more than two kilometers from the coast line and just as important they need to carry a "Class Licence" for the radio itself, either in the boat or on their person, whenever they have either a VHF or 27HZ radio in there boat.

Any further comments on these regulations?

Ive never heard of the above.

The Class Licence really doesnt mean all that much to a boatie. Previously (roughtly 10-15 years ago) all boats with marine band radios needed a ship station licence. I was paying approx $30-60 per year. This basically licenced the radio equipment/appartus on board that vessel. The federal department (currently called ACMA) did away with this. You no longer need to pay for the individual ship station licence. They called the new "situation" a class licence. Which in lay-mans-terms means its now free of charge with no paper work required. You need to make sure you are using type-approved equipment that 99.9% of over the counter unmodified marine radio equipment is.

If the boat was equiped with a VHF or HF radio the requirement was that a person on board must have a personal qualification (which is similar to what is being offered at the FR radio course) This is was the case 10-15 years ago and still is the case now.

DV8 said:

The "Three port corporations" do not monitor 27 meg for search and rescue, therefore if you get into trouble outside the hours of the volunteer organisations nobody will hear you.

Thats a very valid comment that you have made. Ideally everyone should make themselves aware of the rescue and radio facilities available in your area and their times of operation.

cheers, Rod

[jewgaffer]

Ive never heard of the above.

The Class Licence really doesnt mean all that much to a boatie. Previously (roughtly 10-15 years ago) all boats with marine band radios needed a ship station licence. I was paying approx $30-60 per year. This basically licenced the radio equipment/appartus on board that vessel. The federal department (currently called ACMA) did away with this. You no longer need to pay for the individual ship station licence. They called the new "situation" a class licence. Which in lay-mans-terms means its now free of charge with no paper work required. You need to make sure you are using type-approved equipment that 99.9% of over the counter unmodified marine radio equipment is.

If the boat was equiped with a VHF or HF radio the requirement was that a person on board must have a personal qualification (which is similar to what is being offered at the FR radio course) This is was the case 10-15 years ago and still is the case now.

Thats a very valid comment that you have made. Ideally everyone should make themselves aware of the rescue and radio facilities available in your area and their times of operation.

cheers, Rod

Rod, your post carries a lot of weight and would be the right time to remind Members.

When going out to sea more than 2 kilometers from the coast line, an operator of 27HZ Marine Radio must to do an accredited course and an examination in order to be issued a Marine Radio Licence operate it.

I believe operators of 27HZ Marine Radios should make themselves familar, as they may be expected, with the notes and points expained in their copy of a Class Licence and carry same in the boat at all times.

Thanks Rod

If I am wrong, I may save a life due to someone not knowing how to operate a Marine Radio or the behaviour of others over the airways at a time of a crisis.

Thanks Rod.

jewgaffer

[pelican]

Hi I have read a little on the sites but where does it mention the 2km limit for 27mhz usage?

Thanks

[jewgaffer]

Hi I have read a little on the sites but where does it mention the 2km limit for 27mhz usage?

Thanks

Hi Pelican how are you? I knew for over 2 nautical miles off the coast you needed a licence to operate a 27Hz radio and was re-assured of that fact by the coast guard operations at Port Kembla and apparently they do classes and the test occasionally but only according to demand.

Just got the number for Port Kembla Coast Guard for you from my list in the boat so you can find out for yourself about licences bring complusory to operate a VHF and to operate a 27Hz radio over 2 nautical miles off the coast.

The number to ring is 42744288

I've got a VHF I inherited with my Mustang and I want to use the VHF in my little Eagle Ray boat as well

They say you should be familiar with a Class Licence for a 27hz and carry it in your boat if you are asked to produce it. There is info on a Class Licence in this topic. And you can verify that with some communication body, it seems.

A Class licence is compulsory with VHF radios and I need one myself as well as a VHF licence that's why I'm doing the fishraider course.

It's amazing the maritime people don't tell you clearly and even don't say it anywhere it seems to me.

I know for a fact they will be cracking down on recreational boats and will have extra inspectors and overtime.

It's sure got me moving to comply, and there's a pretty good warning in the Admin. post.

The Admin. message is loud and clear and it is there to make members aware and the course is to help them out.

Pelican hope this helps you mate.

Lets know how you go.

Cheers

jewgaffer

Edited September 9, 2007 by jewgaffer

[pelican]

Cheers . Sending you a PM Jewgaffer.

[fishingrod]

Ive worked closely with a Volunteer Marine Rescue organisation and have never heard if this 2 mile limit "law". Id like to see it written somewhere?

Thus my previous quote :

Ive never heard of the above.

But like JewGaffer, I fully endorse that everyone with a radio in their boat does the FR or similar radio course regardless of their area of operation.

Rod

Edited September 9, 2007 by fishingrod

[jewgaffer]

Ive worked closely with a Volunteer Marine Rescue organisation and have never heard if this 2 mile limit "law". Id like to see it written somewhere?

Thus my previous quote :

But like JewGaffer, I fully endorse that everyone with a radio in their boat does the FR or similar radio course regardless of their area of operation.

Rod

Hi Rod Thanks for the pm

I was going to pm you on this but thought it would be best to reply in the topic.

I have a Vhf radio. When I had the 27hz, I was subject to a boat check by an inspector and there was a young fisheries chap nearby booking another bloke.

I hadn't been outside as such but had a few snapper a few inches over and a couple of undersize trevally and a pretty good morwong, which I caught in close to the heads.

They appeared to know one another. The fisheries chap started measuring oversize snapper!! ??

Having been around many years, the first thought that entered my mind because of the look of the fisheries chap, was that I would be booked by someone who didn't know the rules for having the undersized trevally !!

The fisheries chap was young and seemed inexperienced so I thought to myself " here we go he'll say the trevally look undersize to me" . I had read his mind and his body language in less than 10 seconds and that just about summed up what he did say, would you believe!! , and I didnt have a tide chart with me to show him there was no size limit on trevally!

He was about to book me for undersize trevally and had already said "you can always challenge it in court". The maritime bloke had a tide chart in his car which showed there are no size restrictions on trevally.

The fisheries chap not knowing the regulations didn't win that one on the day for him, a lousy tide chart tide chart won the bl.... day for me!!!

Anyway the boat inspector would only believe I must have been fishing miles out to sea after seeing reef fish.

He gave me a warning and "a watch out next time finger" and a lecture on insurance liabilty and how I would be sued if there were any third party claims as a result of me fishing outside the 2 kilometeres, even though I was actually fishing a Lion Island reef!!

When I checked on that later, maritime were not sure about 27Hz themselves and would you believe the supervisor said ' "It's best being on the safe side anyway"! But couldn'tt say where I could get the licence they supply for radios!!

I let that ride as I was selling the big yalta.

Later I checked with the maritime senior at Wollongong, a bloke named Peter. He had no idea about a licences for a 27Hz radio was even unsure about the fact that a Vhf licece was compulsury!!.

He said if anyone would know it's the Coast Guard at Port Kembla.

Peter gave me the following phone number 42744288 and I spoke to an experienced English bloke who said he runs the Coast Guard radio room and handles enquiries at Port Kembla.

He said Vhf licences are compulsory in all areas and 27Hz are compusory more than 2 kilometres from the coastline !! He also said *"Class Licences" are compulsory for a Vhf and you should have one for a 27hz radio kept on the boat should you need to produce it

*Maybe a "Class Licence" is to make sure users know the radio broadcast rules, for insurance and liabilty purposes, etiquette and behaviour in case of an emergency while operating a marine radio etc. ???

Rod that's the best I can do .

The members should check for themselves. It only takes a phone call.

The officers wouldn't want you to know where the radar is, when they're hiding in the bushes somewhere during a blitz and that's a fact too.

Cheers

jewgaffer

Edited September 10, 2007 by jewgaffer